Born intelligent or Gradually become smart?

[ProtomanMt]

I had a recent arguement with someone in regards to the notion of whether people are born intelliegent or gradually become smart through proper schooling. I was in favor of children becoming smart through proper schooling and discipline. A person can't solve a word problem—or possibly know something without prior knowledge.

Example: If you were to play Halo 3 and master the concepts of the game and trigger it towards another game of relevance(Call of Duty 4, FPS), you'll also do fairly fine on those too.

Exception to this example would be the possibility of honing new concepts of the game that were different to the prior game you've mastered. Maybe the buttons were switched around or different weapons prove to have a greater impact than the ones from the other FPS.

In conclusion, people aren't born smart because they have no knowledge prior to being born. Their brains aren't developed and can only percieve information effectively through proper learning and the willingness to learn.

[han_han]

Both are factors of being "smart." Through proper schooling, a person who isn't inherently intelligent can become a diligent student who learns quickly. On the other hand, some people who are born with a brain with vast cognitive faculties might not need to try as hard as those who aren't born with a learning capacity greater than the norm.

Basically, in simple terms, stupid people can try hard and be smart, and smart people don't have to try to be what they are.

Knowledge is the meterstick for "smart" here, I'm assuming, but I find that the ability to make connections and recognize patterns is also a trait of "smart" people. Actual intelligence is a factor of both genetics and environment, as with everything else. Let's face it, you know those retarded kids born from incestuous families are never going to legitimately make it to the top of the intellectual ladder.

[Eppie]

Originally Posted by han_han

Knowledge is the meterstick for "smart" here, I'm assuming, but I find that the ability to make connections and recognize patterns is also a trait of "smart" people.

Knowledge is something you gather over time. If that is you you define smart, then yes, you get smart over time. That inherent problem-solving ability is something you are born with. If that is how you define smart, then you are born with it. I happen to define smart as the latter, so I believe that people are born smart.

[ProtomanMt]

Originally Posted by han_han

Both are factors of being "smart." Through proper schooling, a person who isn't inherently intelligent can become a diligent student who learns quickly. On the other hand, some people who are born with a brain with vast cognitive faculties might not need to try as hard as those who aren't born with a learning capacity greater than the norm.

Basically, in simple terms, stupid people can try hard and be smart, and smart people don't have to try to be what they are.

Knowledge is the meterstick for "smart" here, I'm assuming, but I find that the ability to make connections and recognize patterns is also a trait of "smart" people. Actual intelligence is a factor of both genetics and environment, as with everything else. Let's face it, you know those retarded kids born from incestuous families are never going to legitimately make it to the top of the intellectual ladder.

That dosen't entirely make sense because we're all born with a brain, it's all about how you implement it. If two students went to different schools: one with an excellent learning environment and the other with little or no educational environment. The person who started honing his skills in the beginning at the more prestigous school will have a better foundation of learning. If you weren't taught correctly on how to read, write, or solve word problems, chances of success is slim.

The only other conclusion I can deduce would be that we all have different learning styles in which we progress more easily with—visually, auditorily, or kenithetically. Maybe if a child was brought into a learning environment more suitable to his liking as a minor; he could still benefit at a low leveled or prestigued school. Even with that thought in mind, people who could be smart may be deprived of that quality if unproperly taught. I don't believe gentics is a factor to consider unless your lacking something that's out of norm.

[6satan6archist6]

Well I would have to say the intelligence is not something that you are born with. Some people might be born with a better learning ability than others, but that doesn't mean they are born smarter.

[Shin666]

Intelligence is knowing what questions to ask, and to seek to find those answers. Being smart is just memorizing the answers and applying them. At least that's how i personally view things. In regards to your question though, i believe han han summed it up fairly well.

[ProtomanMt]

Originally Posted by 6satan6archist6

Well I would have to say the intelligence is not something that you are born with. Some people might be born with a better learning ability than others, but that doesn't mean they are born smarter.

This is exactly the argument I was trying to get across. People are born with different styles of learning, but aren't born smart itself. Personality could also be a preference or factor to consider on how people learn. When I use the term "personality", I mean how your raised because people develop personalties in regards to their environment.

Example: If your rich and spoil your child, then your child would be spoiled. Taking that same child and placed into poor environment, the child will develop compassion or hate, but not be spoiled. The child could process the emotion of hate through negligence in the family or other factors that could lead to hate. Compassion could be granted through love in a unprofitting family even though they are lacking behind in finances.

Determination and the willingness to learn are probably the two most factors that can be implemented in creating the word "intelligent".

[Akazukin]

I support the view of born smart.

Taking a group of 4 kids, for example. They will have different personalities. The first boy will command and say "ok lets all go to toilet, cause I'm scared". The second and third boy thinks and somehow agree, the 4th boy was slightly slower, but he followed them, because he doesn't know which option to chose.

You can say that the first boy somehow has leadership gift, not knowing it, he commanded a crew of 4 to the toilet!

In games as well, some can play Mario without eating a single mushroom, or master the Ryu character in just a few minutes - but some will play like an idiot forever, hitting the Punch button for up to weeks.

In the long run where everyone received equal education - in leadership , language command, and knowledge, those who are born smart can see more opportunities than others. Which is why the world is unfair today, some people made money easily, others worked for life under them, even when they got the best degree!

[Dyndrilliac]

I'm a proponent of Nurturer as opposed to Nature influencing, so I would have to say that a person's intellect just like their mental stability and over-all persona is a product of their collective experiences and the life they have led. If you were to make fifty clones of Einstein, some may be dumb as a rock and some may have the genius he had when he was alive; but you are not guaranteed (nor is it likely) to come out with fifty geniuses.

[JeweyK]

Originally Posted by Akazukin

I support the view of born smart.

Taking a group of 4 kids, for example. They will have different personalities. The first boy will command and say "ok lets all go to toilet, cause I'm scared". The second and third boy thinks and somehow agree, the 4th boy was slightly slower, but he followed them, because he doesn't know which option to chose.

You can say that the first boy somehow has leadership gift, not knowing it, he commanded a crew of 4 to the toilet!

Your argument isn't supporting that people are born smart, just that everyone has different personalities.

Also, that example makes no sense as to help your view.

[han_han]

Just because everyone is born with a brain doesn't mean they're all the same. Just as people are born with different traits, their brains can have different traits as well, influencing their ability to learn and make connections.

[ProtomanMt]

Originally Posted by Akazukin

I support the view of born smart.

Taking a group of 4 kids, for example. They will have different personalities. The first boy will command and say "ok lets all go to toilet, cause I'm scared". The second and third boy thinks and somehow agree, the 4th boy was slightly slower, but he followed them, because he doesn't know which option to chose.

You can say that the first boy somehow has leadership gift, not knowing it, he commanded a crew of 4 to the toilet!

In games as well, some can play Mario without eating a single mushroom, or master the Ryu character in just a few minutes - but some will play like an idiot forever, hitting the Punch button for up to weeks.

In the long run where everyone received equal education - in leadership , language command, and knowledge, those who are born smart can see more opportunities than others. Which is why the world is unfair today, some people made money easily, others worked for life under them, even when they got the best degree!

This isn't being born smart, but being raised correctly( my point!). The boy who did go the toilet was most likely raised accordingly by a parent and or relative to which he implemented that trait.

The analogy of your situation can be broken down with a simple A, B, and C senerio:

A. The father could have been a hard ass in which caused him to become more aware of certain situations that call for leadership.

B.An inspiration from a sibling, friend, or character on televion caused him to want to impersonate or implement the trait of leadership in which can cause a well developed foundation in leading to excelled leadership.

C.The school got him processing the ideas of leadership.

To conclude once again, the idea of being born smart is ludicrous because people are all borned the same, but only learn differently due to disparate exposure whether be influential or taught.

[Akazukin]

I may sound stupid, but I always do anyway, don't have to flame me , if you disagree, just don't quote my post and let it die.

What I mean by the 4-boy example is that different people will act differently. It's not just 'personality'. It's this "feeling". Define "Smart"? an ability to see and understand faster, make better judgement and decisions, more "clever".

Like what han_han have wrote, the output of two retarded kids won't be a leader who rule the country. Because why? he won't feel like reading a book, he won't strife to find new pieces of knowledge, he is not interested in arts and literature. and he is scared to stand in front of people.

If your Dad is a president and your mum an air force lieutenant, you will be forced to study, but you can chose your destiny, it depends on how you 'feel'.

And where do those feelings came from? enviroment? education? If education cannot create a clone personality, it's proven that some are born with a smarter "personality". They are able to feel and react in a much better way even without education.

[Ghost-Flight]

Nature vs Nurture, nether side can win

[CrazyGerbilEater]

people are born smart

everyone is born with different potential. people are not born equal. the enviroment only influences how far we get within the potential a person is born with. The potential is the main influence here though. A person with huge intelectual potential can make it past the enviromental influence, and reach his or her potential. While someone with little potential will be affected by the enviroment in a greater way.

face it, when you go around and talk to people, you can see the pure stupidity in people. They may have aquired alot of knowledge, but if you can't use that knowledge effectivly, its useless.

A smart/intelligent person is not knowledgable, they are simply able to grasp concepts and put them together better than most.

if people were all born the same, then why do retards exist? they are raised pretty much identically to intelligent kids, the same parents can have two kids, one be retard, the other normal. All of our brains have little differences, and those difference change our potential. a retard cannot become a genius, he can reach his potential, and thats it. two people trying with the same effort will not reach the same intelectual level. one will fall short while the other rises until he reaches his potential.