when the government is afraid of the people you have liberty

[Intangir]

YouTube - Will you kill them? They are scared you will.

when the people are afraid of the government you have tyranny.
when the government is afraid of the people you have liberty.

[K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ]

This is not a serious discussion. If we wanted to watch V for Vendetta we would.

[Mookster]

Now, now. Play nice in the sandbox.

Who's the man taking the stand?

[Shade]

Perhaps it is best to phrase Intagir's statements as questions. Which would you prefer - a government which fears its citizens? Or that the citizens fear the government? And more importantly, why would you prefer either of these options?

[Degausser]

Perhaps it's better to not let Intangir post in serious discussion.

[MiCrOz]

Why would you want either? Why can't a people and its government work with each other.

[JeweyK]

If the people are the government, wouldn't that mean we would be fearing ourselves? :O

[Shade]

Why would you want either? Why can't a people and its government work with each other.

I think that is a valid point, however, I would like to examine it a bit more carefully. It seems to me, that, the ideal situation, as far as citizens and their governments are concerned, would be the elimination representational democracy. (I do acknowledge the problems of a country like the USA using direct representation) When we use representatives, it cannot guarantee that a people and their government will work with each other. A good representative will be very involved in his/her community and represent their views entirely, however, as you will probably agree, this is not always the case. In direct representation, the complications are everywhere, but each individual creates his or her government, so they are forced to work together.

If the people are the government, wouldn't that mean we would be fearing ourselves?

Yes, but you and I both know that is just a foolish implication of the logic. Also, in a representational democracy, that is not necessarily the case.

[Mookster]

Originally Posted by Degausser

Perhaps it's better to not let Intangir post in serious discussion.

I said play nice in the mother ****ing sandbox.

What he's saying isn't untrue. The fashion in which he's saying it might seem folly, but it's still true. Too many people fear the government, and there's alot of question surrounding the intentions of the people in power. If any of the speculation is true, you can be damn sure they'd do anything to cover their asses; and they'd probably be able to get away with quite a ****ing lot before people really started paying attention, especially with so many people like you guys who flat out refuse to believe their government would do something wrong.

[Shin666]

When the government is afraid of the people, martial law is declared...no?

[KenshinHimura]

Originally Posted by Shin666

When the government is afraid of the people, martial law is declared...no?

The actual quote is when *elected officials* are afraid of the people, then you have freedom. The reasoning behind this is that you control if they get elected. Appointed people of the government have no reason to fear us.

Also the government isn't very well defined in this discussion. When you talk about the government being afraid, you need to qualify what scope of government you are talking about in order to be understood correctly.

[Mookster]

There are quite a few different contexts you could take this under. In tandem with the video that Intigir posted (and the general opinion he seems to have about the government being self serving,) I'd stand to reason that he means the government needs to be afraid that the people will not allow them to (for example) be self serving, threaten the senate into passing bills that are just plain ludicrous, and engage in fake wars.
I'd be afraid too, if the average person had half a brain, but the government really doesn't seem to have all that much to worry about. People are too busy waving flags to stop and think that they might just be becoming the new world enemy, or that their government might be serving a select few of it's own whilst condemning the rest of the States to what may be an economical meltdown or worse. And even if by chance you're wrong, you should still stop and consider the possibility. Americans don't though, and that kind of ignorance can come at a huge cost (nevermind the trillion dollars.)
The people within the government who actually can commit those war crimes should be afraid that the American people would not sit idly by and watch them **** **** up. If they have nothing to fear, they could do whatever the **** they wanted, and that seems to be exactly what they're doing. I think one could define that as tyranny.