How to know that God is real.

[Z.A.R]

I know that most of you want physical scientific proof that God exists. So this is how you do it.

Science changes all the time with new evidences. I am a chemist working towards a degree at USU, so I know a little about science. Here is a fact, no theory or law is provable it can only be observed having the same effect multiple times; don't even try to argue this because it is true; that is what all science is based on. For instance the law of gravity, it can be observed in all our surroundings we can feel and see its effects on earth and in the cosmos. However, we are finding out that the laws of gravity have anomalies and discrepancies, for instance:

Stars in galaxies follow a distribution of velocities where stars on the outskirts are moving faster than they should according to the observed distributions of normal matter. Galaxies within galaxy clusters show a similar pattern. Dark matter, which interacts gravitationally but not electromagnetically, accounts for the discrepancy. Various modifications to Newtonian dynamics have also been proposed.

The expansion of the universe seems to be speeding up. Dark energy has been proposed to explain this. A recent alternative explanation is that the geometry of space is not homogeneous (due to clusters of galaxies) and that when the data is reinterpreted to take this into account, the expansion is not speeding up after all.

The Pioneer spacecraft seems to be slowing down in a way which has yet to be explained.

Various spacecraft have experienced greater accelerations during slingshot maneuvers than expected.

(You can get the sources for this at good old Wikipedia under "Gravitation" as well as many published scientific journals around the world.)

So for those of you that think science is absolute you have a crude awakening. If you think something like "man made" science will prove the existence of God when the scientific community wants to explain things without the existence of a Supreme Creator then you probably will never get your "proof" of God through these means. It is a bias argument coming from either end.

This is what I will do I will go through the scientific method to show you my findings about God. However, just like science, if a person is not familiar with how the mechanisms work then it is hard to come to and see the findings. So if you try to prove the existence of the multi-verse by your own observation not being familiar the known sciences of time and mathematics that accompany it then you probably wont be very successful until you have learned all you can about the subject and have done your own mathematical equations and experiments to come to a conclusion of the theory of a multi-verse.

Same thing goes for findings about God. In order to find your proof of Him, you have to study about Him. Experiment with the idea. Try to communicate to him through prayer and be patient waiting for answers. And just like using the scientific method, conduct several experiments try multiple times throughout your life to communicate with him and be open to unexpected findings. Observe things around you, the cosmos and how they work, the tiniest of cells and how they function. Notice how complicated the inner workings of the tiniest unicellular Prokaryotic cell and ask yourself how could this have just happened by chance, some random occurrence.

Here is a link to a movie made by Harvard University on the inner workings of the cell. You should check it out it is awesome! BioVisions

Another big thing that science uses are previous findings. So talk to people that believe in a Supreme Creator. Ask them why they believe in a God. If you are stuck and don't know what to do next ask someone for advice on the next step in your experiment. You must be skeptical with your findings, but don't let your own bias and beliefs get in the way. Then continue your experiments.

Just like science some people get what they are looking immediately but others spend their whole lives trying to find the answers. The same thing goes with your findings on God. Some of you may get your proof immediately while others it might take your entire life time.

Be patient, and good luck with your hypotheses.

[ViperSRT3g]

The speeding up effect can be explained in very simple terms. As we all know, looking further and further into space, we are looking at light that left the objects further and further back in time. A time that was that much closer to the big bang. Since we think the big bang is what started the universe, it would follow the same basic principles of a regular explosion. It would start out with objects flying outwards at extremely high velocities, but gradually slow down. People always ignorantly say, but there isn't air in space. Well obviously, but there is still gravity. And when you put gravity into effect of an explosion, the velocities of the objects involve with the explosion will gradually slow down as time passes. So the objects that are flying away from us at near the speed of light about 14 or so billion light years away were flying at that speed 14 billion or so years ago. That is definitely not their present speed. They'll have slowed down a whole lot by now.

Now if you were to apply this to things that are closer to us, and what do you get? Things now appear to be slowing down noticeably because they are that much closer to us, we see them closer to real time. We are close enough for the light from them to actually reach us and show us that they are slowing down. Dark Matter does not exist. And I doubt anyone at all can prove the existence of a God.

[hypn]

Originally Posted by ViperGTSR3g

Dark Matter does not exist. And I doubt anyone at all can prove the existence of a God.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if they ever manage to catch some and put it in a bottle - but without it, the current big bang theory and model of the universe don't work.

As for people always wanting "proof" of God, I think He's "too high/big" to build enough of a ("scientific") case to prove His existence. For example, when filing a patent for something, you have to fully define it and how it works. Same goes for proving something scientifically, you have to be able to describe and measure it - something I don't think we can do of God.

Z.A.R: good on you for posting this, but I predict it's either going to turn into an endless debate/argument, or flame war :|

[Z.A.R]

Well let's just hope there are some scientifically minded people within this forum that will understand what I am saying and then it won't have to turn into a flame war. I am hoping that someone will see that in a world where science has left God out of the picture that if someone is a true science believer and knows the scientific method would understand what I am proposing.

This is a way that I came up with to let the scientific minded people to try and prove that a god exists using their own method of understanding.

This should be interesting to read the comments.

[Belphegor]

ViperGTSR3g, have you done any research at all, before stating Dark Matter doesn't exist? How can you just blatantly say 70% of the scientific world is incorrect? I mean, at least propose a reason why, or another theory to explain these anomalies that we experience day to day in our galaxy...

Dark matter, by hypothesis, doesn’t interact directly with ordinary matter, so we can imagine moving the ordinary stuff while leaving the dark stuff behind. If we then check back and determine where the gravity is, it should be pointing either at the left-behind dark matter, if there is such a thing, or still at the ordinary matter if not.

Happily, the universe has done exactly this for us. In the Bullet Cluster, more formally known as 1E 0657-56, we actually find two clusters of galaxies that have relatively recently passed right through each other. It turns out that the large majority, about 90% of ordinary matter in a cluster is not in the galaxies themselves, but in hot X-ray emitting intergalactic gas. As the two clusters passed through each other, the hot gas in each smacked into the gas in the other, while the individual galaxies and the dark matter, presumed to be collision less passed right through.

Bullet Cluster
MPeg Animation of what is believed to of happened
Lensing Study by Astrophysicist Doug Clowe and Maxim Markevitch

And the answer is?

[ProtomanMt]

It doesn't hurt to believe in something, what do you have to lose?

[Mookster]

I like how you skip the bull**** and get right down to the grit of what the science/religion argument really is.
I've heard some rather intelligent people use similar discussions to legitimize their belief in God. I must, must, point out though, science begins it's philosophy at the core of our senses. Religion has a very kosher place within science, as a deviation of the human mind, and has all the support of other history, other religions, mainstream science and sciences such as psychology, behind it. Purely mathematically, science delivers greater odds of being correct. One of God's requirements of you is to believe in him, for him to grant you eternal life in heaven. It seems a tad ridiculous to create a being that can only deal in comparisons and odds, expect it to ignorantly refuse the entirety of that lay before him to compare, and choose one of the several religions that defy all that is seen and compared with those 5 senses you've given him, doesn't it? That sort of flaw in logic is something I'd expect more from a man.

Originally Posted by ProtomanMt

It doesn't hurt to believe in something, what do you have to lose?

Well, yes, it does. Nearly every war in recorded history has been due to religion, or some other type of intrusive, non-negotiable belief that influenced mob mentality. On an individual level, people need to eliminate that sort of thinking to keep history from repeating itself; but as I often say, people are too ****ing stupid to do that.

[Dr. Silence]

Mookster, every mass war was caused by religion but if it wasn't than there would certainly be another reason to hate and disagree, it's in our naturally egocentric nature... This whole theory is a interesting read but there is such little evidence behind it that we can actually grasp and see and then say... "yes this is what is actually happening", these are vague overdrawn hypothesis which in the end sadly have no answer, no ending so to speak. So the more you search be it through a science perspective or a religious perspective(sadly the same thing only science has numbers on its side, which oh dear was something also conjured up by humans) you're going to be spending a great deal of time on something which really doesn't matter at all.

[ProtomanMt]

Originally Posted by Mookster

I like how you skip the bull**** and get right down to the grit of what the science/religion argument really is.
I've heard some rather intelligent people use similar discussions to legitimize their belief in God. I must, must, point out though, science begins it's philosophy at the core of our senses. Religion has a very kosher place within science, as a deviation of the human mind, and has all the support of other history, other religions, mainstream science and sciences such as psychology, behind it. Purely mathematically, science delivers greater odds of being correct. One of God's requirements of you is to believe in him, for him to grant you eternal life in heaven. It seems a tad ridiculous to create a being that can only deal in comparisons and odds, expect it to ignorantly refuse the entirety of that lay before him to compare, and choose one of the several religions that defy all that is seen and compared with those 5 senses you've given him, doesn't it? That sort of flaw in logic is something I'd expect more from a man.

Well, yes, it does. Nearly every war in recorded history has been due to religion, or some other type of intrusive, non-negotiable belief that influenced mob mentality. On an individual level, people need to eliminate that sort of thinking to keep history from repeating itself; but as I often say, people are too ****ing stupid to do that.

I love how you took my statement and totally triggered towards a whole diffrent perspective. I was referring in regards to believing in God in which you have two choices: to believe or not. If you don't believe(like you've said), you won't be granted or will be deprived of an eternal life. If you do believe.....(you can fill in the blanks). Point being, you have nothing to lose, all he ask is to —believe.

[JamesUsher]

Originally Posted by ProtomanMt

It doesn't hurt to believe in something, what do you have to lose?

agreed

[Akazukin]

Seems like ZAR is trying to point out that our science has its flaws and we could not use science to proof that God exists.

In my opinion, if God truly exists, it will unbalance the whole universe. People who pray will get certain benefits. What about the hard working caveman who does not know about the existence of God? he will be burned in hell after death for not praying?

Science and Religions are two separate things. Even when someone has solid evidence that God does not exist, people will still believe in God and hate that scientist. It's some emotional needs to escape economy, science and human rules. When your relative is about to die, you will want to pray instead of studying the whole hospital crew members and the technology they have.

I have came across an interesting read about a guy who does not believe in God. He spent his lifetime to write books with scientific arguments on why God does not exist. One day he was badly injured by an accident. Seconds before he escaped death, he could see a bright room and 2 hands. It is from that day onwards, he started to believe in God. He believed that those were God's helping hands and he could feel it. It's the truth for him. Other scientists argued that we could actually see our life history in seconds before we die. Some think that the 2 hards are actually a doctor's hard on the day he was born.

[Dr. Silence]

Originally Posted by Akazukin

Seems like ZAR is trying to point out that our science has its flaws and we could not use science to proof that God exists.

In my opinion, if God truly exists, it will unbalance the whole universe. People who pray will get certain benefits. What about the hard working caveman who does not know about the existence of God? he will be burned in hell after death for not praying?

Science and Religions are two separate things. Even when someone has solid evidence that God does not exist, people will still believe in God and hate that scientist. It's some emotional needs to escape economy, science and human rules. When your relative is about to die, you will want to pray instead of studying the whole hospital crew members and the technology they have.

I have came across an interesting read about a guy who does not believe in God. He spent his lifetime to write books with scientific arguments on why God does not exist. One day he was badly injured by an accident. Seconds before he escaped death, he could see a bright room and 2 hands. It is from that day onwards, he started to believe in God. He believed that those were God's helping hands and he could feel it. It's the truth for him. Other scientists argued that we could actually see our life history in seconds before we die. Some think that the 2 hards are actually a doctor's hard on the day he was born.

Shame it's impossible to actually remember that far. Look the guy obviously hated religion and he studied it, meaning he was aware of the whole "I nearly died saw god" crap many know people experience, he was dieing, unconsciously aware of that and so many things could of triggered such a vision. Religion was made up by people, simple as that, hence why we have so many of them. It's a story, Jesus would be the equivalent to that crazy long haired bum on the streets screaming about how the world is going to end and that they are the salvation, heck what you think Jesus did? Except he just started it that's all...

[CrazyGerbilEater]

who cares if god exists or not?

i say that whether he exists or not, im not going to bow down and praise some mystical ******* who doesn't do anything to help me.

itd be better if everyone just didn't care about god, i dont see why all these people want to bow down to a thing who you cannot interact with in anyway, and who doesnt do anything for you except let you into some retarded fairlyland in which you have to appease him for all time

id rather just cease to exist.

[K? Pŕo?ćtiόnŹ]

You dont know much about Christianity =-\.