Top 5 needed nerfs for SC2

[APISTOBORELLI]

Don't know if you guys saw this yet or not. I thought it was kind of funny.

Top 5 needed Nerfs for Starcraft 2 | STARFEEDER | Starfeeder | Starcraft, Starcraft 2, Brood War, SC2, SC:BW

[earthful]

LOL Battlecruisers shouldn't be nerfed :D I love massing BCs cuz they r always the best units but the most expensive to make. If I remember this right, it took me half hour just to build large army of battlecruisers (13 BCs) without mineral hack in 2v2 Macro Map. But it was worth it since battlecruisers could be tactically destroyed by scourges. SC I has the best checks and balances more than SC II, SC II is more about MASS MASS MASS THE MOTHER****ERS AND OWN THE NEWBS FOR FUN.

[gamepin126]

An equal number of scouts will blow the **** out of any amount of battle cruisers.

[MiCrOz]

The Fix: Make the actual gun on top of the Command Center targetable and has a separate HP count then the actual CC.

That is all I agree with.

[Logos]

Originally Posted by gamepin126

An equal number of scouts will blow the **** out of any amount of battle cruisers.

That is quite incorrect. In fact it's just wrong, I'm not sure what made you think that. An equal number of unupgraded Scouts would be beaten silly by unupgraded Battlecruisers. If 20 such Battlecruisers took on 20 such Scouts, about 13 of the Battlecruisers would remain after the Scout fleet had been torn to pieces.

What is correct, however, is that a group of vanilla Scouts consuming the same number of supplies as another group of vanilla Battlecruisers, would blow the latter group out of the water. That is, the group of Battlecruisers would be massacred by the group of twice as many Scouts. These numbers could be considered quite a fair match-up, seeing how the supply limit often dictates the size of your fleet. However, neither force will be totally unupgraded, that's just silly. And in the end, the Battlecruisers will most likely win - even when outnumbered 2-to-1. Now what are the reasons for this?

First, let's make a few assumptions:
* Optimally Focused Fire: Optimal focus of fire will always be engaged. This means that while all ships will focus fire on and keep hitting the same target until it's destroyed, no shots will be wasted on firing at a target that's already dead or about to die anyway (such as when missiles that will deal out the Coupe de Grace are already heading towards the target). Not a totally realistic scenario in StarCraft, but that's definitely how a competent target acquiring AI should be programmed if done right.
* Equal upgrades: Neither group will have any advantage in upgrades. The upgrade levels of the Scouts will match those of Battlecruisers in all respects (such as 0-0-0 vs 0-0 or 3-3-3 vs 3-3).

Now, for the small things that still could count:
* First Strike: Battlecruisers have the definite range advantage (6 vs 4) and as such they will always inflict the first strike. With large enough groups, this will immediately kill off Scouts before they even get to participate in combat (and fire any missiles), instantly lowering the Scout group's damaging capabilities. It also gives the Battlecruisers some bonus cooldown time while the Scouts are still closing in.
* Slow Missiles: While the Battlecruiser's laser beam attack (to my knowledge) is instant, the Scout's anti-matter missiles are not. They need to travel to their target before going off, which takes some small amount of time. This delay will eventually slightly postpone the destruction of the target, sometimes providing just enough time for a final retaliatory attack. An interesting and notable side effect of this is of course the possibility of mutual destruction.
* Shield Regeneration: On the other hand the shields of the Scouts regenerate, albeit at a very slow pace.
* Upgraded Shields: Also upgraded shields will shake off some additional damage everytime a hit depletes a Scout's shields and goes on to damage the hull as well (as both Shield Armor and Hull Armor will absorb damage).

However, with sufficiently large groups of ships, the shield regeneration of the Scouts will effectively cease to matter and the combined defensive bonuses from both Shields and Hull should only come into play once (in most cases). Moreover, with Equal upgrades, the Battlecruiser's increase in damage (+3 per upgrade) will outweigh the rare case of combined defensive bonuses from Shields and Hull.


Let's move on to the main, deciding factors. First up is Damage Over Time (DOT):
* Scout on Battlecruiser, all cases: A Scout has a DOT of 2x(14-3)/22=1.0 against a Battlecruiser. This does not change with upgrades, as any Scout damage increase will be neutralized by a matching increase in Battlecruiser armor.
* Battlecruiser on Scout, "vanilla": A Battlecruiser without any upgrades has a DOT of 1x(25-0)/30=0.83 against an equally unupgraded Scout.
* Battlecruiser on Scout, "crack": A fully upgraded (3-3) Battlecruiser, on the other hand, has a DOT of 1x(25+3x3-3)/30=1.03 against a fully upgraded (3-3-3) Scout. This is a significant improvement, in fact the Battlecruiser now gets a DOT higher than that of the Scout. So, saying a group of Battlecruisers will be beaten by an equal number of Scouts is just plain wrong, already here.

Now what about HP, the second main factor?
The Battlecruiser sees a crushing victory here. With a massive 500 HP it completely dwarfs the Scout's puny 150 HP + 100 shields. That's 500 vs 250 folks, double up. Even the Scout's 25% advantage in damage before any upgrades can't nearly make up for 50% less HP. That's just ridiculous.

Sure shields do regenerate, but even so Battlecruisers are nearly twice as resilient as Battlecruisers and, again, with focused fire shield regeneration will not come into play at all once the groups start getting big. This not only means that a large group of Battlecruisers will have twice the effective collective HP as an equal number of Scouts, but as the individual Scouts start dying considerably faster their combined offensive power will drop much more rapidly than that of the Battlecruiser group, quickly giving the Battlecruisers an ever-increasing DOT advantage relative to had it been otherwise. Also, the Battlecruisers start killing off Scouts at every volley at significantly lower numbers than the Scouts start doing Battlecruisers. It would only take 10 vanilla Battlecruisers (10x25=250) or 9 "Crackcruisers" (9x31=279) to kill one Scout per cooldown, while it would take 23 Scouts (regardless of upgrades) before seeing any Battlecruiser go down in round 1.

Yamato Gun
If we take Yamato Guns into account, things start getting really silly. The 260 damage blast results in one nearly instant Scout kill per Battlecruiser at the very start of the fight. Sure, the Yamato Gun takes some time to power up, but this is slightly offset by the Yamato Gun's long range (10). With Yamato technology a Battlecruiser fleet will EASILY crush a Scout fleet with twice the numbers. And I can't think of any good reason for not researching Yamato Gun very quickly if you start building up a Battlecruiser fleet.

Tests
Let's run some numbers to see which ship design comes out on top when slugging it out. These simulations don't take the minor factors into account, as that would turn out too complicated, but they are only minor factors after all and while they could make a big difference in a 1on1, we are talking about fleets here. The exception is that the Battlecruisers always gain the first strike in case of a tie, but they don't receive any bonus to the first cooldown so that should about compensate for ignoring the Shield advantages Shields.

Simulation - 1on1 - Unupgraded
In a 1on1 "vanilla" the Battlecruiser wins after 10 attacks or 9x30=270 time units (t.u.) as the Scout's been dealt 10x25=250 damage by the Battlecruiser. The Battlecruiser has been hit 10 times (9x22=198 t.u.) by the Scout in this time, sustaining 10x22=220 damage.

1 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 1 Scout(s).
270: Battlecruiser #1 kills Scout #1.
270: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
270: 0 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #1 has 214 HP remaining.

(In an in-game 1on1, the Scout would be able to take an additional hit due to shield regeneration as well as dish out an extra leaving the Battlecruiser with 192 HP.)

Simulation - 1on1 - Fully upgraded - No Yamato
Here the Battlecruiser wins after 8x30=240 t.u. as the Scout's been dealt 9x31=279 damage. The Battlecruiser has in turn been hit 11 times by the Scout, sustaining 9x22=242 damage.

1 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 1 Scout(s).
240: Battlecruiser #1 kills Scout #1.
240: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
240: 0 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #1 has 258 HP remaining.

Simulation - 2on1 - Unupgraded
In a fight between between 2 "vanilla" Scouts and 1 "vanilla" Battlecruiser, the Battlecruiser blatantly fails as it dies one hit away from killing even one of the two Scouts. Here is the log:

1 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 2 Scout(s).
210: Battlecruiser #1 kills Scout #1.
264: Scout #2 kills Battlecruiser #1.
264: All Battlecruisers have been killed. Scouts are victorious!
264: 1 Scout(s) were killed. Scout #2 has 155 HP remaining.

Simulation - 2on1 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato
Now here's the cool stuff. A single "Crackcruiser" taking on two fully upgraded Scouts. No Yamato technology employed. The single Battlecruiser just manages to take one of the Scouts with it to the grave. Badass. Yet, one could've expected more from a unit with twice the build time and almost twice the cost of a Scout.

1 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 2 Scout(s).
240: Battlecruiser #1 kills Scout #1.
242: Scout #2 kills Battlecruiser #1.
242: All Battlecruisers have been killed. Scouts are victorious!
242: 1 Scout(s) were killed. Scout #2 has 250 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on20 - Unupgraded

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 20 Scout(s).
0: Battlecruiser #10 kills Scout #1.
0: Battlecruiser #20 kills Scout #2.
22: Scout #7 kills Battlecruiser #1.
30: Battlecruiser #11 kills Scout #3.
44: Scout #13 kills Battlecruiser #2.
60: Battlecruiser #3 kills Scout #4.
60: Battlecruiser #13 kills Scout #5.
88: Scout #6 kills Battlecruiser #3.
90: Battlecruiser #6 kills Scout #6.
90: Battlecruiser #16 kills Scout #7.
110: Scout #16 kills Battlecruiser #4.
120: Battlecruiser #10 kills Scout #8.
120: Battlecruiser #20 kills Scout #9.
150: Battlecruiser #14 kills Scout #10.
154: Scout #18 kills Battlecruiser #5.
180: Battlecruiser #9 kills Scout #11.
180: Battlecruiser #19 kills Scout #12.
210: Battlecruiser #14 kills Scout #13.
220: Scout #16 kills Battlecruiser #6.
240: Battlecruiser #10 kills Scout #14.
240: Battlecruiser #20 kills Scout #15.
270: Battlecruiser #16 kills Scout #16.
300: Battlecruiser #12 kills Scout #17.
330: Battlecruiser #8 kills Scout #18.
330: Battlecruiser #18 kills Scout #19.
352: Scout #20 kills Battlecruiser #7.
360: Battlecruiser #15 kills Scout #20.
360: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
360: 7 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #8 has 500 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on26 - Unupgraded

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 26 Scout(s).
840: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
840: 16 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #17 has 346 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on27 - Unupgraded

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 27 Scout(s).
836: All Battlecruisers have been killed. Scouts are victorious!
836: 21 Scout(s) were killed. Scout #22 has 25 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on20 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 20 Scout(s).
330: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
330: 6 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #7 has 390 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on27 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 27 Scout(s).
720: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
720: 15 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #16 has 412 HP remaining.

Simulation - 20on28 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato

20 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 28 Scout(s).
1012: All Battlecruisers have been killed. Scouts are victorious!
1012: 25 Scout(s) were killed. Scout #26 has 64 HP remaining.

Simulation - 100on139 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato[code]100 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 139 Scout(s).
1710: All Scouts have been killed. Battlecruisers are victorious!
1710: 99 Battlecruiser(s) were killed. Battlecruiser #100 has 500 HP remaining.[/quote]

Simulation - 100on140 - Fully Upgraded - No Yamato

100 Battlecruiser(s) taking on 140 Scout(s).
1034: All Battlecruisers have been killed. Scouts are victorious!
1034: 125 Scout(s) were killed. Scout #126 has 250 HP remaining.

All-in-All
A group of fully upgraded Battlecruisers would easily dispatch more than twice their number of Scouts, as long as they have at least 150 energy stored up. Otherwise they'd only be able to take on groups of Scouts about 40% larger. But Battlecruisers are still pretty badass.

[MiCrOz]

You're kidding, right?

[FlamingAsterix]

I really really hope that's copypasted and not your own work.

[Logos]

Originally Posted by FlamingAsterix

I really really hope that's copypasted and not your own work.

I don't plagiarize.